It’s a brand new We’re Live, Pal! with myself and Andrew Zarian and this week’s show is available for free on YouTube. Just click above to watch.
We talked about the new combined WWE and UFC company, now under the branding of TKO. We discussed WWE’s media rights and some of the rumors of where they could be headed. We also talked about WBD’s Max streaming service, their play for live sports, and where AEW might fit in.
Finally, we talked about the CM Punk debacle and whether we could see him ending up in WWE.
While speaking with ESPN about the WWE-Endeavor deal, Nick Khan was asked if WWE would be interested in CM Punk (Phil Brooks) making a return to the company.
“Listen, we only have respect for Phil,” Khan responded. “We appreciate his run here. We appreciate what he did and tried to do with the UFC. Not many people can actually get in there and do what he did. So, when we have respect for Phil, we wish him nothing but the best.”
Punk’s AEW contract was terminated with cause following a physical backstage incident that took place at All In. His termination was announced on September 2 after an internal investigation into the incident.
WWE’s Zelina Vega, Finn Balor, and Drew McIntyre have also been asked about Punk during recent media interviews. Vega said she would “absolutely” like to see Punk back in WWE, while Balor and McIntyre didn’t disclose much about their thoughts.
The Ringer Wrestling Show asked Balor if he would like to work a program with Punk if Punk returned to WWE. Balor said: “I’d be interested in wrestling a broomstick if someone’s going to pay me money. So, show me the money. Money talks.”
McIntyre told Sportskeeda WrestleBinge: “I don’t make those decisions. I watch what I say in interviews. But he’s certainly controversial and he gets people talking. I’ll leave it at that.”
Punk last wrestled for WWE when he walked out of the company in 2014.
The WWE-Endeavor deal could potentially offer crossover opportunities to some UFC fighters.
WWE and UFC were officially merged into one company today as TKO Group Holdings. Though they will continue to operate independently, Nick Khan told ESPN that the merger could offer some fighters the ability to extend their careers with TKO. Khan said fighters with big personalities could potentially crossover from UFC to WWE.
“UFC fighters are gonna stay focused on the UFC and WWE superstars obviously do something different in our ring,” Khan said. “… but you also see in the UFC people with big personalities who, once their UFC run is done, once the UFC and the fighter says, ‘Hey, maybe now’s the time to call it a day,’ could those people have a longer life at WWE, an extended life with TKO? We think so.”
Brock Lesnar and Ronda Rousey are among those who have been stars for both WWE and UFC.
UFC senior executive vice president and chief operating officer Lawrence Epstein also spoke to ESPN about the merger.
“Where we want to get is where every UFC fan is a WWE fan and every WWE fan is a UFC fan,” Epstein said.
ESPN wrote that there are no plans for WWE or UFC to undergo massive changes. Epstein said one thing that could happen in the future is UFC and WWE holding major events on the same weekend in one city and selling that as a package to tourism authorities:
There are no plans for ‘massive changes’ to the respective products, [Khan and Epstein] said. Epstein said White will still run the day-to-day operations of the UFC and Levesque will remain the head of creative for WWE. What could happen, Epstein said, is the UFC and WWE holding major events on the same weekend in one city and the two promotions going to tourism authorities and selling them on paying for the UFC and WWE as a package deal coming to their jurisdiction.
New documents filed with the United States Securities and Exchange Commission on Thursday have revealed 10 of the 11 board members for TKO Group Holdings, the company to be created through the WWE-UFC merger.
Six of the new company’s board will be selected by Endeavor and the remaining five by WWE. Today’s filing listed the following names, along with their ages, as those confirmed:
Vincent K. McMahon (WWE), 77
Ariel Emmanuel (Endeavor), 62
Egon P. Durban (Endeavor), 49
Nick Khan (WWE), 48
Steven R. Koonin (WWE), 66
Jonathan A. Kraft (Endeavor), 59
Sonya E. Medina (Endeavor), 47
Mark Shapiro (Endeavor), 53
Nancy R. Tellem (WWE), 70
Carrie Wheeler (Endeavor), 51
The remaining board member to be confirmed will be selected by WWE.
From today’s filing:
“Under the terms of the transaction agreement, upon the completion of the Transactions, the New PubCo Board will consist of 11 members who will be determined prior to the Closing, five of whom will be selected by WWE, of whom (x) two will be members of the WWE management team (one of whom will be Mr. McMahon) and (y) three will be independent, and six of whom will be selected by Endeavor, of whom (x) three will be members of the Endeavor management team or Endeavor directors (one of whom will be Mr. Emanuel) and (y) three will be independent.”
Durban is the co-CEO of global technological investment firm Silver Lake and serves on the board for Endeavor Group Holdings.
Koonin has been the CEO of the Atlanta Hawks and State Farm Arena since 2014. He’s also a former president of TBS.
Kraft is the president of the New England Patriots and the Kraft family holding company, The Kraft Group. He’s the son of Patriots owner Robert Kraft.
Medina is the president and CEO of Reach Resilience and a co-founder of Greenlight Growth Capital, LLC.
Tellem is the executive chairperson and chief media officer of media company Eko and a former president of Xbox Entertainment Studios.
Wheeler is CEO of Opendoor Technologies Inc. and has served on the board of directors of numerous companies.
Khan currently serves as CEO of WWE and has been with the company since August 2020. McMahon was named executive chairman of WWE in January after a brief sabbatical from the company. Shapiro has been president of Endeavor since December 2018. Emanuel founded the company in 1995 and currently serves as its CEO.
As they continue down their road to a merger with Endeavor’s UFC, WWE announced on Wednesday a quarterly record of $410.3 million for the second quarter of 2023.
That is a 25% increase ($82.1 million) year-over-year (YOY), powered by the revenue from May’s Night of Champions in Saudi Arabia in addition in increased media rights fees and live event revenue.
The company also set quarterly records in operating income and adjusted OIBDA (operating income before depreciation and amortization).
The latest on Vince McMahon
The company continues to experience financial fallout from the Executive Chairman’s alleged hush money payouts that were exposed last summer.
“During the three and six months ended June 30, 2023, the Company incurred $5.3 million and $7.1 million, respectively, of expenses related to costs incurred in connection with and/or arising from the investigation conducted by the Special Committee of members of the Company’s Board of Directors, related revisions to the Company’s financial statements and other related matters.”
They noted that McMahon has continued to reimburse WWE for “all reasonable costs” related to the investigation and has paid approximately $17.4 million in reimbursements to date.
Also revealed in their filings:
“On July 17, 2023, federal law enforcement agents executed a search warrant and served a federal grand jury subpoena on Mr. McMahon. No charges have been brought in these investigations.
Additionally from the The Company has received voluntary and compulsory legal demands for documents, including from federal law enforcement and regulatory agencies, concerning the investigation and related subject matters.”
Nick Khan declined to comment on this matter on Wednesday’s investors call. He did confirm that McMahon had spinal surgery and is on medical leave, adding they will respect his privacy about his health during this time.
Inside the numbers
For the quarter, the aforementioned media rights finished at $320.3 million (up from $243 million YOY) while live event revenue finished at $62 million (up from $41 million YOY). However, consumer products dipped to $28 million, down from $44.1 million in last year’s Q2, due to a decrease in licensing and ecommerce revenue as they transitioned to Fanatics.
To give an idea of the continued Saudi Arabia positive financial impact, the Other category increased to $66.5 million, up from $9.7 million YOY.
The company held 53 ticketed events this past quarter (43 domestic and 10 international) with average domestic attendance of 9900. In comparison to last year, they held 59 ticketed events (55 domestic and 4 international) with domestic attendance of approximately 6800.
Khan said it was their highest-grossing live event quarter of all time and they see no slowdown coming.
Endeavor deal
There was no news related to the specific timeline for closing the Endeavor/UFC merger. WWE did disclose some costs related to the potential merger, reporting that “For the three and six months ended June 30, 2023, the Company’s consolidated pre-tax results included $18.8 million and $25.4 million, respectively, of expenses related to the strategic alternatives review and agreement with Endeavor.”
Khan said on the investors call that the process hasn’t been easy, but it also hasn’t been difficult. He did not give a specific month in which they expect the deal to be approved by regulators.
Media rights
There is still no further news on domestic media rights for Raw, SmackDown and NXT other than Khan saying they are continuing to talk to various players, including in the OTT (over the top) streamer space in addition to traditional companies.
When asked why the process is taking longer than last time, Khan said it’s due to the larger starting price for rights. He is confident in where they will end up, citing “significant interest” and that things are “progressing well.”
When asked about potentially splitting up how their broadcasts are aired between linear and streaming, he said that will be up to whoever owns the rights, citing the NFL and how their partners make content available to viewers.
PPV/PLE viewership increases
All three of the PPVs/PLEs that fell in the Q2 timeframe saw significant increases in “global unique viewership.” They didn’t break out Peacock as they have in past quarterly updates.
WrestleMania: up 29% year-over-year
Backlash: up 34% year-over-year
Night of Champions: up 45% year-over-year
Other notes:
Khan said they have already set a record in booked sponsorship dollars for the year.
Khan said their ad share deal with Twitch pays WWE talent more than if they were on their own. He expects bigger things out of that partnership as time goes on and after the Endeavor deal closes.
John LaRocca and I are back with a brand new Fight Game Podcast.
We started the show with thoughts on the top three matches at Saturday’s WWE Night of Champions. We also tried to figure out what the finish is for the Tag Team title match as well as the match order for the show.
We then went to our thumbs up/thumbs down segment talking about Tony Khan and CM Punk, JR Kratos, Nick Khan, and the unsanctioned match stipulation at AEW Double or Nothing.
We then moved onto our big picture look at this past week’s Dynamite and Sunday’s Double or Nothing pay-per-view, focusing on the following:
The disappointing closing angle for the Anarchy In The Arena match
One pillar and three guys
Mark Briscoe running wild
Lack of build for both women’s title matches
Sabu
A look at the whole AEW Double or Nothing card
You can subscribe to The Fight Game Podcast on Apple Podcasts and follow us on Spotify or click below to listen.
Everything seems to have been worked out regarding C.M. Punk returning to AEW on the debut episode of Collision on 6/17 at the United Center in Chicago.
After the blow-up on 5/16 which caused Punk to be pulled from all publicity, over the role of Ace Steel (Chris Guy), which has apparently been agreed to so Steel will work remotely and not be brought to Collision every Saturday as Punk and Steel had originally thought would be the case.
Punk had gotten Steel his job back after Steel ended up as the lone casualty of the Brawl after All Out. During that brawl, he was said to have hit Nick Jackson hard in the head with a chair and bit the forearm of Kenny Omega so deep that even two weeks later in photos teeth marks were very visible on his skin. The story from those defending him was at the time that it was due to his wife, who was immobile due to a foot injury, being in the room when the fight took place.
It’s a brand new We’re Live, Pal! as Andrew Zarian and I talk about the latest topics in pro wrestling.
Andrew and I started by talking about the latest CM Punk news. Where did the hype trail derail? Will CM Punk still be part of AEW Collision? We gave our thoughts.
We then looked at quotes by Nick Khan about the future of WWE’s television deals.
We then looked at WWE’s Night of Champions and AEW’s Double or Nothing — both coming up this weekend along with NXT Battleground.
You can watch the show above or listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts in addition to the link below.
WWE CEO Nick Khan continues to do the conference rounds this month, saying during a Tuesday talk that the company “doesn’t anticipate” Raw will change from its weekly three-hour format while also saying it could move off Mondays if needed.
He also said they are open to a third hour of SmackDown.
During his talk, he again brought up that the 10 PM hour for Raw is under consideration for some adjustments that would appeal to a more adult audience.
He confirmed they are still in the exclusive negotiating window with NBCUniversal on renewal rights for the Monday night institution while they are now out of that window with Fox. Those windows began during WrestleMania 39 weekend in early-April.
It’s unknown what other entities have shown interest as of now. Khan has continued to remain bullish on the TV rights interest for both properties from both broadcast and streaming entities.
He gave no indication Tuesday as to when a deal could be done with any interested party. There’s no rush for it to be done as they want to do what is best to maximize the value for WWE.
In a talk last week, Khan said they would be open to SmackDown moving off Friday nights while referencing how Amazon is attempting to program specific nights of the week for their Prime streaming service. He said Tuesday their content could go any night of the week, mentioning how Raw could also move off Mondays.
WWE and Endeavor’s UFC are expected to merge in the second half of the year to form a new publicly traded company called TKO. The deal has to pass regulatory measures first in order to do that.
Other interesting notes:
Khan said he feels NXT could be its own third brand with more crossover from Raw and SmackDown and be more than just a developmental brand.
He also said that more content could be coming with “an additional show” on another night of the week: “Once that all of (TV rights) gets situated, we’ll look at other nights of the week to develop new content as well.” Some of that new content could be more adult-themed to satisfy the audience who is looking for it.
In talking about the future with UK TV rights, Khan mentioned they have over 150,000 WWE Network subscribers at $10 USD per month in the region.
He said the goal is for every pay-per-view/PLE to have a site subsidy fee like Cardiff, Wales, with Clash at the Castle, and Backlash in Puerto Rico.
He said they see spikes on both Peacock and YouTube for older events in the lead-up to the new events (i.e. WrestleMania).
During the same appearance Thursday where he confirmed WWE will hold a live event in India this September, WWE CEO Nick Khan revealed that he questioned Vince McMahon on what was really driving his return to the company this past January.
Speaking at the MoffettNathanson’s Technology, Media, and Telecom Conference, Khan was asked about the developments that led up to the decision to merge WWE with Endeavor’s UFC to create a new publicly-traded public company named TKO, subject to regulatory approval.
“When he (McMahon) came back…he and I had a private conversation, which he’s certainly comfortable with me sharing today, where I said, ‘Hey, just tell me is this real because there’s some scuttlebutt out there that maybe this is just your way to come back in to your company.’ Which, again, he would have the right to do also, and he said, ‘No, I’m committed to it. I give you my word,’ Khan said.
He said McMahon’s insistence in having a “strong banker” involved in the sale exploration process also showed he was serious
“Lo and behold, he was serious about the process and the deal was finalized April 1st and announced the morning of April 3rd before the market opened,” Khan said.
After resigning from WWE last summer due to the scandal regarding his alleged hush money payouts to women for sexual misconduct over the years, McMahon orchestrated his return this past January to facilitate a sale.
If approved, the merger is expected to go through later this year.
In an extensive interview done earlier this month, WWE CEO Nick Khan discussed what the company is looking forward to with the impending Endeavor merger, adding in an interesting line about their Peacock deal coming up in a few years.
In his discussion with Lightshed Partners, Khan was asked about whether the new WWE & UFC merged company would be interested in packaging their rights together and perhaps delaying the next round of TV rights to align everything.
Khan said WWE is “ready to go now” when it comes to Raw and SmackDown negotiations, but specifically mentioned that one thing not being talked about is their WWE Network and PPV/PLE licensing deal to Peacock which is up just months after the UFC’s deal with ESPN is in 2025.
“That Peacock deal? The timing of that is interesting to us,” he said.
As he’s done in the past, Khan put over the Peacock relationship and that he feels NBCU leadership would say WWE fans have contributed greatly to their 20+ million paid subscribers.
When asked if WWE would be interested in a similar model to what UFC and ESPN have with PPVs and live events, Khan said he thought the UFC/Disney deal was “extraordinary” and pointed out how UFC retained their rights to their Fight Pass streaming service as a hedge.
Khan said their preference is to license the WWE Network product, but that if it can’t be done for the right price, they will just take it back in house.
Here are some other notes from the hour-long talk that took place on April 7th.
More rights talk, a return to PPV?
Khan said there isn’t interest in going back to linear PPV due to those providers taking half the money “just for plugging in.” They would consider going back to the digital PPV model if it was accessible for the fanbase and priced right.
With the rights for both Raw and SmackDown, they “want the best sized deal possible” and while they hope they remain with both NBCUniversal and Fox, “if we get out of the exclusive negotiation window, the marketplace is going to be robust.”
Asked about their ratings being down compared to the past going into these rights, Khan said they look at ratings vs. everything else currently and while linear and cable ratings are down, they are up.
“We think we have a hot hand at this moment in time and we think, comparatively speaking in the marketplace, we’re doing pretty well,” he said, noting there are many more buyers than there were five years due to the presence of streaming providers.
Khan said he doesn’t know if the marketplace is showing much of an appetite for a split between linear and streaming when it comes to splitting rights, using the NFL as an example.
“Would we? Sure. Do we think the marketplace will allow for that? Not as sure,” he said.
Asked about whether the Raw and SmackDown rights have to be negotiated together, he used the NHL as an example of deals not being done together and cited their big rights increase despite people saying their ratings were down too.
A return to a more mature WWE?
Asked if WWE would consider more mature content that is more geared toward what they did in years past, Khan said there has been a “conversation point” amongst themselves and NBCU about the 10 PM hour of Raw and what they could do with that, adding they are nowhere near a decision.
On paying wrestlers more
The criticisms of UFC fighter pay came up which Khan said is the UFC’s business to manage and “goes untouched by us” in this eventual merged company.
With wrestler pay, Khan said, “We think a lot of them are well compensated. Certainly, all talent wants to be paid more and management wants to try to manage those costs.”
He said that their individual deals with talents are unique and WWE is “confident in our position in the marketplace.”
He did add that depending on whatever the rights fees increases turn out to be, “we expect a lot of that to drop to the bottom of the line,” intimating talent would see some benefit.
The benefits of Endeavor
There were two specific points Khan brought up that they are looking forward to having Endeavor help with. One is sponsorship as despite hitting highs for the Royal Rumble and WrestleMania, he admired how Endeavor helped grown the UFC sponsorship number from $35 million pre-sale to nearly $200 million post-sale.
The other is Endeavor’s relationships overseas which they think will be a big benefit with various rights deals throughout the world as they have “boots on the ground” in many regions that WWE does not.
UK & India media rights, Saudi relationship
Khan said UK media rights (coming up in the next few years) and a “hyper-focused” approach in India will be focuses. He said the India-targeted WWE Superstar Spectacle in January 2021 was viewed by 25 million people live and nearly 40 million over a three-day period. He expects things to pick up in India following the Zee-Sony merger as they can begin planning their next live event there.
Khan said there are no issues with the Saudi Arabia relationship post-merger announcement despite Endeavor’s past moves in pulling business out of the country. They are looking forward to two Saudi events this year.
Corporate cuts
As has been stated before, Khan said there are cost synergies to be had with the new company with “obvious overlap” between the two. They want to become as lean and mean as possible.
In terms of cutting a significant headcount, he said they are looking at cutting “other costs” and need to be protective of the creative and production teams and are not looking to cut there.
Wrestling Observer Radio with Bryan Alvarez and Dave Meltzer is back with tons to talk about including the injury to Dante Martin, a full recap of the ROH PPV and Smackdown, a WrestleMania preview, news on Randy Orton, Penelope and Kip, Nick Khan, Tony’s next big announcement, Drew McIntyre’s contract status, Matt Jackson, ratings and more. A packed show as always so check it out~!
Timestamps:
Start: Dante Martin injury
10:05: Penelope Ford & Kip Sabian discuss miscarriage from last year
11:44: Nick Khan, Vince McMahon get new contracts, lots of WWE media
16:30: Randy Orton is in town for WrestleMania but isn’t expected back soon
17:28: NXT Battleground to go head-to-head with Double or Nothing
22:11: Tony Khan has a big announcement for Wednesday
26:08: Drew McIntyre contract report, Matt Jackson update
27:57: Ratings
32:07: ROH Supercard of Honor recap, Dave’s Bloodsport thoughts
1:06:48: WWE SmackDown recap, Rampage notes, WrestleMania lineups
Nick Khan’s media rounds ahead of this weekend’s WrestleMania 39 continued Thursday as the WWE CEO discussed whether his former co-CEO Stephanie McMahon could return one day.
Talking on CNBC’s Closing Time, Khan was asked about why McMahon left and whether she could be in the company’s future plans.
Khan pointed out that she was taking a leave of absence when he and Vince McMahon called her to request her return to the company to take over both as co-CEO with Khan and interim Chairwoman of the Board as Vince McMahon stepped down due to the scandal of last summer.
Khan said she did “phenomenal work across the board” but he believes she went back to do whatever she was thinking about doing during the aforementioned leave of absence, saying, “she seems to be in a great place.”
Could she return either before or after a sale?
“It’s a question for her. We would always love to have her as part of WWE. The time would need to be right for her and I’m not sure if she’s there yet,” he said.
Other Notes:
He couldn’t comment on who is involved in the bidding to buy the company, but said there is “quite the robust response.”
When asked if the asking price was $9 billion, he couldn’t confirm.
He again reiterated that Vince McMahon made it clear to him and the marketplace that he doesn’t need to be part of WWE post-sale. He said he isn’t sure McMahon wants to be involved if a sale happens.
Regarding gambling, Khan said the conversations they were having were intended to be private and “unfortunately, it got out there.” He said they are looking at the future and see the prospects as similar to other predetermined events where gambling is allowed in some states which includes the Grammys and the Oscars. He said they “remain optimistic on the whole proposition.”
WWE may have some surprises in store for WrestleMania 39.
Nick Khan told ESPN’s First Take on Thursday that the company has “got to make it big” this year in Los Angeles. When asked what fans can expect from the event, Khan responded:
Expect a bunch of surprises, that’s what we’re known for, this is WrestleMania. We pulled some out at Royal Rumble a couple of months ago in San Antonio. Here at SoFi Stadium, Los Angeles, two-night event, we got to make it big. So, that’s what we expect to have happen.
Earlier in the conversation, Khan spoke about how celebrity involvement has been a big part of WrestleMania’s history.
Khan said:
It really started with Mr. T, which was Vince McMahon’s vision with WrestleMania I to get the most relevant, or one of the most relevant celebrities at that time along with Cyndi Lauper to come over, the Rock N Wrestling Connection, and to get eyeballs on our product that way.
If you think about it, it then continued with Floyd Mayweather. It used to be, as you knew, boxers came into the sports entertainment, the WWE world, on the downside of their career.
Then you look at Floyd, he came into it when he was on the upswing. Tyson Fury did the same thing and I think Bad Bunny, when he finally came in during WrestleMania Tampa two years ago. Bad Bunny really set the stage that this is where you go if you’re building your brand, not once you’re on the downside. I think that applies to Ronda, it applies to Logan, it applies to Pat McAfee and the other good folks you mentioned.
Earlier this week, Khan noted that Pat McAfee is not expected to be part of WrestleMania this year. McAfee returned to WWE for one night at the Royal Rumble in January but has not returned to his previously held position at the SmackDown commentary position.
